TITANS OF NUCLEAR

1 - Probabilistic Risk Assessment in Nuclear

Bret Kugelmass: What brought you to nuclear to begin with?

Mark Flaherty: Mark Flaherty began working in nuclear power when he graduated from college in 1986. He is second generation power worker; his father worked in nuclear power at Calvert Cliffs coming out of the Navy in the early 1970’s, where Flaherty is now the Site Vice President. While he was growing up, Flaherty saw the hard work of the nuclear power plant team and the commitment to the team and had memories of plant outages. He was always very mechanically inclined, went to school, and working in a nuclear power plant was a natural fit for him. After graduation, Flaherty started out as a contractor at his dad’s facility, then moved to Davis-Besse in Ohio where he worked as an engineer doing probabilistic risk assessment (PRA). PRA helps develop, from a risk-based perspective, areas or locations where there might be opportunities to add design margin. After Three Mile Island in 1979, the nuclear industry focused on developing new tools to evaluate potential vulnerabilities with the existing plants and adding margin against the vulnerabilities. PRA was one of those new tools. Mark Flaherty and his family moved to the Ginna Nuclear Power Plant outside Rochester, NY, ultimately going on to get his senior reactor operator (SRO) certification allowing him to be a shift technical advisor. After that, Flaherty moved into leadership positions in engineering and regulatory assurance of the organization.

2 - Comparisons of Ginna and Calvert Cliff Stations

Bret Kugelmass: How was the transition from working at a plant to working at the corporate office?

Mark Flaherty: Mark Flaherty had a good transition from working at a plant to working at the corporate office, getting more involved in some of the financial pieces and some of the other industry organizations, like the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) and the Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI). After Constellation Energy purchased Ginna, Flaherty was able to bring a lot of the history and site culture back to the corporate offices, as well as some of the decisions that had been made historically. Ginna is a two-loop Westinghouse pressurized water reactor (PWR) that was built from 1966 to 1969 and new features had been added along the way. Davis-Besse was a 600 MW B&W PWR and Calvert Cliffs is a two-unit, two-loop 900 MW Combustion Engineering PWR. Calvert Cliffs had two steam generators per unit, but Calvert Cliffs has four reactor coolant pumps, while Ginna had one steam generator and two pumps. For Combustion Engineering and Westinghouse PWR’s, both reactor coolant pumps must be operational at all times.

3 - Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Station

Bret Kugelmass: At what point did you transition back to being on the plant side of nuclear?

Mark Flaherty: Mark Flaherty came to Calvert Cliffs in 2006 as part of his promotion to fill the role of Engineering Site Director. In this role, he was responsible for all engineering activities at the station including design engineering for plant changes, systems engineering for performance monitoring, programs engineering for station health, and capital asset management for the station. While he may not have known every component in the plant, Flaherty knew when to start asking questions and the right type of questions to ask. Right now, Calvert Cliffs is going through centralization with Exelon, which looks at ways to optimize costs for running a nuclear plant. The design organization is a very classic organization that can be centralized because making a change to a system at one plant can easily translate into a change at another plant. The majority of Exelon plants are boiling water reactors (BWR) and about one-third are pressurized water reactors (PWR). Baltimore Gas & Electric (BGE) was the original constructor at Calvert Cliffs in the 1970’s and there were a combination of issues during construction. Calvert Cliffs has two vendors supplying turbines for the site and the operators are licensed to operate both units. With all the rain on the East Coast this summer, the Chesapeake Bay has been churning and a hurricane is on the way, so grass and silt has to be removed from the condenser water boxes. Large amounts of water are needed to condense steam to turn it back into water; Calvert Cliffs draws approximately 2.3 million gallons per minute from the Chesapeake Bay between the two units.

4 - Water, the Environment, and Nuclear Power

Bret Kugelmass: Can other power plants be put by rivers and lakes as well for their water source?

Mark Flaherty: Condensing steam depends on the temperature difference allowed for the water that goes in versus the water that goes out and flow rate. If the delta T is limited, like Calvert Cliffs’ delta T limit at 12 degrees Fahrenheit, discharge water can’t be any more than 12 degrees higher than water taken in by the plant. Rivers are typically smaller bodies of water but may be allowed a larger delta T. The Chesapeake Bay is a brackish water which brings unique aspects of any sea life, such as barnacles, crabs, and jellyfish. Plants located on a river or lake may be more challenged with zebra mussels or smaller fish. Any engineering firm hired to design a new plant would look at all the operating experience and lessons learned from previous builds as opportunities to do things better. Regulations have evolved, in many cases substantially, since the 1950’s and 60’s when the plants were originally sited. After four and a half years, Mark Flaherty returned to corporate offices to be the general manager of all engineering across the three Constellation nuclear sites. Constellation merged with Exelon in 2013. Prior to the merger, Flaherty was brought back to Calvert Cliffs as the plant manager. A plant manager focuses on making sure that the people there have the right standards and are following the expectations. Flaherty sets aside time to have conversations with the craft and workforce to answer questions and get feedback. The biggest challenge is whether the price of nuclear electricity really compensates for the entire big picture of what nuclear brings to the table.

5 - Operational Excellence at Calvert Cliffs

Bret Kugelmass: How can we make sure nuclear is being compensated for its carbon-free nature?

Mark Flaherty: The zero carbon emissions that nuclear power brings to the table is not reflected in the current market. Nuclear power plants are typically viewed as base load, meaning they were designed and expected to run 100% of the time at 100% power. Each of the units shuts down every two years for three weeks to refuel the reactor. That capability is unique to nuclear power. Calvert Cliffs has one of the best operational records as far as keeping the plans at 100% power and keeping the units running very safely and reliably, including efficiently and effectively doing maintenance and refueling the reactor during outages. The Exelon management model created a lot of opportunities for the station to capitalize and implement going forward. Exelon is providing a lot of capital investment for the long term operation of the Calvert Cliffs units.

6 - Exelon’s Target Nuclear Electricity Cost

Bret Kugelmass: Where does Calvert Cliffs fit in the map of how likely nuclear is to survive in the market?

Mark Flaherty: Constellation Energy was formed by the break-up of the original Baltimore Gas & Electric around 1999. From that point, Calvert Cliffs became an unregulated entity, meaning they are expected to produce power and get paid from the marketplace for that power. A regulated utility, as commonly found in the South, is compensated for the units whether they operate or not. There is still oversight from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC). Exelon has a vision of getting off as a fleet a $25 per megawatt all in. This provides a target that the company will still be profitable if the generation cost for the units can be achieved. Nuclear power can be expensive and has been historically. Each unit is different and increased regulations have worked together to create financial challenges for the industry. Part of the vision to provide cheap electricity is through centralization and working with regulators. Mark Flaherty served as plant manager at Calvert Cliffs for four and a half years and was given the opportunity to become Site Vice President at the plant. Flaherty is always looking out for what opportunities he can grant to his people as part of his legacy. The goal of his team to use nuclear power to safely and reliably produce electrical power for their community. Calvert Cliffs produces one-third of the electricity in the state of Maryland. There is a long term future for nuclear power at all of Exelon’s nuclear power plants.

1 - Path from Robotics to Nuclear

Todd Allen: Tell us about your career and how you started the Titans of Nuclear podcast.

Bret Kugelmass: Bret Kugelmass’ background is in robotics, but Titans of Nuclear (TON) satisfies his curiosity. In college, Kugelmass worked for Goddard Space Flight Center, where he developed a control unit for a Mars rover. In graduate school, he started a lab at Stanford for Panasonic and was tasked with envisioning a future of mobility, leading Kugelmass to design an electric, autonomous, single-seater car. Kugelmass continued down the robotics path after graduation and participated in an open source community working on auto pilot. He started a company, Airphrame, and developed fleets of drones which were controlled over the internet to map out millions of homes across the U.S. When Airphrame was acquired, Kugelmass had the time to pursue climate change, the issue of the era and it didn’t seem like people had any solutions. He re-read “The Whole Earth Discipline” by Stewart Brand and climate change didn’t seem like a daunting challenge, as Brand dispelled all the myths of nuclear energy. Each TON podcast starts with clips from a speech President Eisenhower gave to the United Nations called “Atoms for Peace”. He painted an optimistic, and transparent vision about nuclear power, even though the origin of the technology was the nuclear bomb.

2 - Optimism in Nuclear

Todd Allen: Are you seeing a turning point in optimism around nuclear?

Bret Kugelmass: There is more optimism about nuclear; so many industries have risen from nothing into multi-billion dollar industries with optimism. In searching for Titans for the Titans of Nuclear (TON) podcast, Bret Kugelmass started reaching out to professors and graduate students in nuclear programs. It took him three months to get his first five interviews, which included Todd Allen, who introduced him to many people in the industry and invited him out to Idaho National Lab (INL). As his list of future interviewees grew, Kugelmass started doing series interviews in which he interviewed multiple people at a location to paint a picture of the culture from multiple different perspectives. Nuclear is challenging because there are so many different facets to it and relationships between those facets, requiring a deep dive in every technology and every area of expertise from multiple angles. Kugelmass also conducts international interviews, including at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). The IAEA makes sure that countries don’t take their nuclear energy technology and use it to make nuclear weapons. They also guide countries that are interested in becoming nuclear countries through the process. Safeguards must be built into the technology up front, especially if developers are looking into the nuclear export market.

3 - Common Themes in the Perception of Nuclear

Todd Allen: Are you noticing grand themes in your conversations with the hundreds of Titans of Nuclear you’ve interviewed?

Bret Kugelmass: There are themes in the Titans of Nuclear interviews that are positive things that everyone in the industry knows, themes that are talking points about nuclear mythologies, and themes that Bret Kugelmass likes personally and wants to promote. On the positive side of nuclear, something that comes up often is the energy density. Since nuclear energy is six magnitudes more dense than fossil fuels, there is a million times less material that has to be dug up and moved and a million times less waste. Another positive trends are the nuclear industry's safety track record, the 90% capacity factor, and it’s carbon-free energy production. Making an interview personal is important for the message and for human communication in general, including how the nuclear industry communicates. There are talking points that Kugelmass withholds healthy skepticism for, including the point that nuclear must work with renewables and it is an all-of-the-above solution. Gen IV and advanced manufacturing are treated as if they will definitely lead to cost reductions, but Kugelmass is not sure of that, even though he hopes it is the case. Kugelmass loves the idea and theme that nuclear power can provide triple Earth’s energy supply, be cheaper, fix climate change, bring people out of energy, and provide limitless clean water.

4 - Competition in the Nuclear Industry

Todd Allen: Is the technologist approach to nuclear convincing to people?

Bret Kugelmass: After interviewing Todd Allen in the third episode of his nuclear podcast, Bret Kugelmass changed the name of his podcast from “Why Not Nuclear?” to “Titans of Nuclear”. “Why Not Nuclear?” had a negative work in it, but “Titans of Nuclear” conveyed something strong and powerful that could change the world. Kugelmass sees nuclear as something super optimistic that will launch humanity into the next era. Another factor is the competition in nuclear, and if the U.S. doesn’t deploy nuclear reactors in the next few years, China will beat the U.S. to it. Nuclear energy can be framed in a way that asks who will get there first and deploy the technology that will save the world, similar to the Space Race. Kugelmass received many emails from listeners and the word of mouth growth of the show has been amazing. His business philosophy is that you don’t want to pay for growth too early, because you don’t know if you’ve hit profit market fit. Kugelmass hasn’t put any money into the marketing of the Titans of Nuclear podcast but now has over 10,000 active subscribers.

5 - Entrepreneurial Activity in the Nuclear Space

Todd Allen: What is the future of Titans of Nuclear?

Bret Kugelmass: Bret Kugelmass is trying to create the most thorough analysis of the nuclear space from as many different angles as possible. This year, Kugelmass completed 100 episodes this year, with another 100 in the works. Eventually he will pass on the baton and help in other ways, but he has a list of 2,000 potential interviewees. After Kugelmass has met with and identified enough key stakeholders, he wants to take those relationships and use them to encourage entrepreneurial activity in the nuclear space. Another them he hears that he disagrees with is that the government needs to narrow the path the industry is taking and invest in a few technologies, instead of all the startups. This approach is opposite to the approach taken in Silicon Valley. With more startups, people become more educated and investors are more willing to invest. The best thing that can happen to a startup is more entrepreneurial activity and competition in the space. Bret Kugelmass wants to bring the stakeholders in nuclear together with his finance and entrepreneurial relationships in Silicon Valley. He wants to encourage entrepreneurship in the space and break down barriers for companies that want to secure financing, which will be his focus moving forward. Each startup has the potential to raise hundreds of millions of dollars each because that much money is available for investment. Nuclear energy has the potential to capture the entire six trillion dollar a year energy market. From a first principles perspective, nuclear has advantages orders of magnitude over any other energy source.

1) From Indiana Jones to Chief Executive Officer

Bret Kugelmass: What made you get into mechanical engineering and the nuclear industry? How did you end up as the Chief Executive Officer of Framatome?

Gary Mignogna: Gary Mignogna started out at the College of William & Mary with the hopes of becoming Indiana Jones, however, his interest in physics and math led him into mechanical engineering. He then did the co-op program at Drexel University where he got an internship with Babcock & Wilcox. Ultimately, Gary joined Areva (now Framatome) and has been there for 40 years, rising to Chief Executive Officer. Gary credits constantly moving up in the organization to going to where the need was. This includes being able to adapt to the changing environment, such as the shift from new plant designs to lengthening current plant lives that he experienced in his career. Put the customer first and surround yourself with great people and you’ll always do well. As Framatome Chief Executive Officer, Gary hires the best employees he can find, focusing on skill sets, regardless of whether they’re difficult to manage. The most talented people are sometimes the most difficult to integrate, making for an exciting challenge.

2) Overcoming Challenges

Bret Kugelmass: What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced? How did you overcome them?

Gary Mignogna: Gary Mignogna managed to build new businesses based on innovating to address challenges. This includes adjusting the company’s business of making parts to repairing parts that help make plants safer. Such was the case with repairing parts and fixtures that contain alloy 600. Figuring out how to go in and make those repairs have required innovation. One of the biggest issues is that when the market is good, innovation is hard because current products are selling. Down markets force you to innovate new products that will help companies stay competitive. The key is to always be innovating to stay ahead of the competition. Gary Mignogna: Gary Mignogna and Framatome are working on safer and more reliable fuels. This includes a partnership with LightBridge, where the two are working together to introduce solid metallic fuel. With these metallic fuels, the fuel itself can operate at a lower temperature. This innovation improves plant economics and safety.

3) Innovation in the Nuclear Space

Bret Kugelmass: What are some other areas of innovation that are happening in the nuclear space?

Gary Mignogna: When it comes to looking to expand the life of nuclear plants, Framatome is working on improving digital controls for plants as analog systems become obsolete. That includes the purchase of Schneider Electric’s instrumentation and control business. Framatome has come together with regulators such as the Nuclear Energy Institute and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to help clarify digital control regulation, making the shift to digital more streamlined—an absolute necessity for plants to be able to expand their life. Gary Mignogna: Gary Mignogna understands that nuclear remains one of the most effective forms of energy. That’s existing nuclear, not new nuclear, however, given the state of the industry and issues at Plant Vogtle and V.C. Summer. Renewables are just now getting down to the level of nuclear cost-wise. Anywhere you look that nuclear plants shut down, electricity prices rise by 30-60% and carbon emissions spike. Renewables just aren’t as efficient as nuclear, yet. There are not enough renewables available to make up for the loss of nuclear plants. But right now the costs of building new nuclear plants make it not feasible so we have to find a bridge to get us to that point.

4) Future of Nuclear

Bret Kugelmass: How do we bridge the gap from now to building out full nuclear plants? What’s the future of full scale plants look like?

Gary Mignogna: Gary Mignogna knows that it takes a lot of infrastructure and support to build new nuclear plants. In the U.S., we’ve lost our ability to produce large nuclear plants, and although we’re getting it back, it’s cost prohibitive. Thus, we need to focus on small modular reactors [SMRs] as a bridge to support the electricity grid until we can build generation IV plants. SMRs are simpler and can be moved quickly and easily, which makes them more cost-effective than even the large generation III plants being built today. Once the SMRs are completed at Idaho National Labs and TVA’s Clinch River site they’ll gain more momentum as a whole. And that gets us to the future, where we can build gen IV plants, such as the high-temperature gas reactor that Framatome is working on today. Gary Mignogna believes energy policy is a big step in pushing nuclear ahead. Right now, it’s just the states that are really pushing policy forward that supports nuclear. Such as the case with New York and New Jersey, which realized that nuclear is very beneficial to their respective states. Gary believes the reasons these states chose to support nuclear with legislation is that it’s needed to hit carbon emission targets, generate high paying jobs, keep employment high and generate solid tax revenues—all while helping keep the electricity grid stable.

5) The Federal Government’s Nuclear Policies

Bret Kugelmass: What does it take to get the federal government on board with nuclear?

Gary Mignogna: Gary Mignogna realizes that there’s a large inconsistency in how federal regulation supports nuclear. The differing opinions and influx of new policymakers every few years, such as the case with the Department of Energy and Nuclear Regulatory Commission, make it tough to set a consistent long-term view. Meanwhile, other countries succeeding with nuclear, such as China and France, have governments that support their nuclear infrastructure. The Department of Energy should be supporting new technologies, where we as a country we have the technology, but we need the support to bring it to fruition. Politics will eventually have to come around, but in the meantime, companies like Framatome can help with bridging the gap. Gary Mignogna feels the urgency to bridge the gap, where we’ll need SMRs in the U.S. by the late 2020s and then by the 2030s and 2040s gen IV plants will be ready. We can’t keep doing what we’re doing, we have to innovate by making nuclear more affordable, with lower upfront costs and reduced complexity. Meanwhile, China is indeed bringing new nuclear technology to fruition faster. They’re not better at innovating or designing than the U.S., but the government support in China is allowing the country to beat the U.S. to market with advanced nuclear technology. To keep up, the U.S. needs the Department of Energy to pick a few “winners” and then support the development of their technologies. WIthout the government’s support, gen IV plants just won’t get to market fast enough to keep up with other countries like China, but also Russia.

6) Nuclear’s Impact on Society

Bret Kugelmass: Why is nuclear important for the future?

Gary Mignogna: Nuclear power provides an on-site, five year supply of fuel in the reactor so the power system is not dependent on transportation to bring the power source. These plants operate through thick and thin, such as weather at other events, and at a 95% capacity factor. Society thrives on relatively inexpensive reliable energy and clean water. Generation IV reactors lend themselves well towards desalination plants, which can be an important part of the future as well.

1 - Nuclear Reactor Recovery Team

Bret Kugelmass: How did you get into the nuclear space?

Curtis Van Cleve: Curtis Van Cleve attended the Virginia Military Institute, an engineering school that specializes in mechanical-type engineering programs and sets students up for officer commissioning into the military. Van Cleve did engineering around turbomachinery and power plants systems in preparation to do Navy Nuclear. When medical issues prevented him from pursuing that career, Van Cleve connected with the commercial nuclear fleet at B&W, which became Framatome, transitioning directly into reactor service engineering and tool and component engineering. Later, Van Cleve transitioned into leadership roles, including design of components and installation. He was a member of the recovery team that would travel to plants and recover from issues the power plant had, such as damaged components. Over time, fuel assemblies will stick with the upper internals. The upper internals has a very close fit to the core; the reactor core must be kept very stable. During disassembly, the internals are captured in tension to the vessel, but sometimes the pins on the upper internals get damaged and the fuel pulls with the internals. Van Cleve designed tooling emergently, qualify it in a mock-up facility, and implement the recoveries on-site. Another emerging issue was steam cuts on the reactor vessel, which occur when a mating joint is not completely dry during startup and steam escapes, causing erosion of the metal.

2 - Reactor Repair Design

Bret Kugelmass: How is weld build-up used to repair steam cuts?

Curtis Van Cleve: Steam cuts look like erosion on the bottom of a riverbed and it must be repaired as part of asset management. During recovery work, Curtis Van Cleve learned how to have a risk-based, cool composure and a good working relationship with both utilities and craft. He participated in a recovery project in the Southern U.S. which involved repairing a damaged portion of the internals in the instrumentation column. This required years of mock-up and training with 20 underwater construction divers to prepare for this process. A couple different components were patented because it is not easy to weld under boric water. The boron is used as a neutron control agent, but becomes problematic in repairs because it makes welding difficult. Van Cleve supported a crushed core, which is damage to internals during installation, and his team had to stabilize the fuel assembly and design a carriage to move it. Respect for the core itself must be at the highest level. The most frustrating projects are the small projects that are less complicated but have high financial implications, such as schedule impacts. For more complex problems, Van Cleve and his team ran 24/7 with cross discipline between components, welding engineers, structural analysis, and thermohydraulics. This position provided Van Cleve with the field and implementation experience working with both the utilities, workforce, and engineers to deliver projects. This led him to more complex projects, such as reactor pressure vessel head and steam generator replacements, eventually running the organization that is responsible for asset management of the nuclear steam supply side (NSSS) components of Framatome Services.

3 - Material Reliability Program

Bret Kugelmass: How does a plant engage with Framatome Services?

Curtis Van Cleve: Curtis Van Cleve’s team at Framatome Services is asset management. In the life cycle of a reactor vessel, the owner must think about how components are maintained, how to extend and assess its life, and how to replace it at the end of the life cycle. There are a couple dozen critical components on the nuclear steam supply side (NSSS) along with some peripheral components. Framatome will do the probabilistic risk assessment (PRA) for where failures are going to be, down to welds and bolts-level detail. The bolts that hold the internal core structure together are not safety-related to loss of coolant accident (LOCA), but are instead a foriegn material issue. These bolts are out-of-reach, highly activated, and were originally welded to a cross member; there are anywhere from 900-1,400 bolts in a traditional core support. Each plant has a material reliability program (MRP) that follows an industry-wide, agreed upon frequency of monitoring of components. If there is excessive repair, a non conformance report is issued and goes through an engineering, risk assessment, replacement, and repair procedures. Nuclear is researching how to get from need-based maintenance to truly predictive maintenance. Predictive maintenance looks at sensors that provide little bits of information that humans can correlate to future failures. Cost of maintenance can go down by being smarter about maintenance frequency.

4 - Component Stress Relief Techniques

Bret Kugelmass: What are some of the components that need to get refurbished or replaced the most frequently, and the least frequently?

Curtis Van Cleve: Curtis Van Cleve has a tremendous amount of respect for the engineers from the 1930’s and 1930’s, as well as the eventual commercialization of the Navy Nuclear in the 1950’s and 1960’s, because the designs are incredibly robust. The wear seen on the internals today, after 40 years of operation, are incredibly minimal. Wear seen on pump internals is on the scale of hundred-thousandths and ten-thousandths, typically cracks in heat affected zones. Cavitation peening is used to create a vapor bubble; when it contacts the surface, the implosion forces dimple and relieves the stress in the material. Heat, shot peening, and cryogenic freezing are other stress relief techniques. Framatome has done work with the government on laser powder overlap, which may be used as stress relief in the future.

5 - Value of Existing Nuclear Power Plants

Bret Kugelmass: What did the U.S. do right in the 1960’s and 1970’s that they are performing better and cheaper than ever, so many decades later?

Curtis Van Cleve: When the nuclear power plants were built in the 1960’s and 1970’s, the cost of land was a lot cheaper and the infrastructure built around the plant was, in general, cheaper. Today, all that infrastructure is paid for. Challenges at V.C. Summer and Vogtle surround documentation, getting components in, and the cost and burden of the nuclear processes. When considering power generation, base load, credits for having 24/7 availability, nuclear plants in the U.S. has a capacity factor of over 96%. No other power source has that type of capacity factor. In the middle of a storm in Texas or an arctic vortex up North, nuclear plants keep running. The plants in the U.S. today need to be cherished as a national resource. They don’t need fuel to come in every day; there is 18 months of fuel sitting on a nuclear site, which is an asset to the American people and the national security of the country. When Framatome Services replaces components, they are replaced with more safety margin, more features for industrial safety, radiological upgrades, and more resistant alloys. The manufacturing process today, compared to the 1960’s, is better controlled, more understood, and more automated. This allows for a better fit and the next generation of components will not see the cracks original components see now.

6 - Generational Handoff of Nuclear Technology

Bret Kugelmass: How do you see the nuclear industry changing and what do you hope to see in the next era of nuclear and power supply in general?

Curtis Van Cleve: It is time for the next generation to take the nuclear fleet and own it. The existing fleet, of an appropriate design, need to get through a second license renewal and through another 40 years of operation. At that time, in parallel, the next generation of reactors and fuel should be looked at. In the next generational handoff, the technology should have accident tolerant fuels (ATF) to fix coping time issues, licenses that extend, components that have safety margins, and a next generation, that is most likely modular, that can provide base load support that can’t be provided with other technologies. Framatome and Areva learned that wind and solar are a vital part of energy production, but they can’t be turned on during a snowstorm and there must be base power support. Decommissioning of units that are not of the right pedigree will happen. Units that are of the right pedigree will get an extended life and will be improved to be better, safer, and faster. In 20 years, the next generation will come online.

1 - Intro to Nuclear Engineering

Bret Kugelmass: Did you grow up in the Northeast?

Bob Freeman: Bob Freeman grew up in downtown Boston and later received both his Bachelor’s and Master’s nuclear engineering degrees from the University of Massachusetts Lowell. Freeman had a strong aptitude for math and science, feeling a natural inclination to pursue engineering. Right after his first year, in 1985, Seabrook Station under a lot of pressure from the anti-nuclear groups. He didn’t understand what they were arguing and what was being covered in the media. A lot of the rhetoric didn’t fit the logic in Freeman’s mind, even lacking many facts and figures about nuclear at the time. He learned that a reactor core is approximately 12 feet in diameter, similar size to a gas truck. The gas would last one month for half the houses in the neighborhood, while the fuel in the reactor core would last two years. Nuclear has a number of different pathways within the industry, including service, operation, research, and vendors. He got his first job as a nuclear power plant and got his reactor license because of his experience working with his hands. They had a core that was high enriched uranium. Part of the Department of Energy (DOE) non-proliferation act was to take the high enriched uranium and move it down to low enriched uranium, leading to his focus on fuel.

2 - Design of a Nuclear Reactor Core

Bret Kugelmass: What form did the high enrichment fuel take?

Bob Freeman: The core was three feet high and three feet wide with flat plate type metallic fuel. The aluminum-uranium mix fuel was in high enrichment fuel was three inch by three inch squares making up the plates; eighteen flat plates were in the core. Bob Freeman worked on taking the uranium-aluminum core down to a uranium silicide type core matrix. The fuel was modeled in a computer and tracked neutron by neutron how it runs through the core, is multiplied, and absorbed. This was a Department of Energy (DOE) government program. There are ongoing efforts to develop nuclear fuel. Industry has made incredible strides with the existing technology of uranium dioxide in a zirconium rod. These rods are laid out in a matrix and the core tends to have around 50,000 fuel pins in a core, weighing in at 80-90 tons of material. By regulation, low enriched uranium is 0-5 weight percent. The ore out of the ground has a natural enrichment of 0.71 percent; the enrichment is driven high by replacing u-238 atoms with u-235 atoms, resulting in 5 percent. A mid-range of enrichment is between 5 to 19.75%. Anything about 19.75% is considered high enrichment; the fuel at Lowell at the time was 90.3% enrichment. A fuel design makes sure there is the right amount of poison control, which is used to control the reaction of neutrons, such as gadolinium. Different enrichments around the rod, radially and axially, allows the core power output to be designed.

3 - Path to Framatome

Bret Kugelmass: What is the advantage of having different levels of enrichment radially and axially throughout the reactor?

Bob Freeman: Having different levels of enrichment radially and axially throughout the reactor allows for different neutron flux. This allows burn out evenly among the 50,000 pins. At the end of the fuel cycle, one-third of the pins are replaced and the remaining are moved around to allow for even burn out, which allows the utility to create more power with less fuel. Bob Freeman left university and went to Combustion Engineering in Connecticut to do core design and shipping container design and licensing. He traveled to St. Louis, Missouri to analyze fuels and physics environments for the manufacturing plant. Freeman stayed with Combustion Engineering until the consolidation, choosing Framatome due to a similar culture, which was very employee friendly and customer focused. It is a symbiotic relationship between the vendor, utility, regulator, and Department of Energy. Freeman’s first role at Framatome was a licensing engineer and was shortly after put in charge of licensing and environmental health safety for Framatome and Siemens Power Corporation. Following that, Freeman became plant manager of the Framatome manufacturing plant. The plant is very high tech with a big focus on tolerance and quality. The UF6 (uranium hexafluoride) gas is converted into powder, which is pressed into ceramic pellets. The pellets are baked in furnaces and are individually controlled by barcodes, batches, and lots, similar to a chemical plant.

4 - Role of a Nuclear Fuel Vendor

Bret Kugelmass: How do you tell what level enrichment the fuel is at during production?

Bob Freeman: Material comes in based on laboratory results and it is converted from uranium hexafluoride into uranium dioxide, measured again as a powder, measured again as a pellet, and then the final rod is measured before it goes into the assembly to make sure there is a full quality assurance record for each rod. During fuel fabrication, the pellet is pressed, goes into a furnace where it is baked and hardened, and then goes through a grinder for shaping. The pellet is inspected before it is inserted into the rod, which is then welded on both ends. After another inspection, a scanner will check final enrichment. The rods are placed in a cage, where different measurements on the fuel assemblies can be made. Around 2011, Bob Freeman moved from working in manufacturing and special assignments into the development and commercial side of the business. He wanted to get closer to the customers, normally interfacing with the vice president of fuel or fuel director of different utilities, since they know the core requirements and outputs of their plants. The development of accident tolerant fuels and Framatome’s venture with Lightbridge, Enfission, takes the conventional fuels and advancing it into a whole other level which impacts the safety and economics of the plant. Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and Fukushima had one thing in common: the reaction between zirconium and steam. Zirconium and steam separate the water molecule; the oxygen goes with the zirconium molecule and the hydrogen is left alone, causing a hydrogen explosion. Freeman worked with a plant in California to set up their fuel cycle to move from 18 months to 24 months alternating, allowing one plant to be up during the refueling of the other and the same crew to be brought in for each outage, saving money overall.

5 - Nuclear Fuel Purchasing

Bret Kugelmass: How long does a fuel contract last?

Bob Freeman: The smallest fuel contract is around four years, if something goes wrong. A typical fuel contract is about a decade, with the fabrication generally at a contracted price. Nuclear fuel has different elements, including the commodities of the uranium and enrichment, which is purchased independently at market price. Fabrication is the other element which takes the commodity and puts it in the fuel. The buyer, which is the utility, buys the commodity and has it shipped to the fabricator’s site. A small portion of buyers have switched their fuel supplier from the plant manufacturer, but they may do so if they find a better price or product. There are a number of activities going on in the industry to counteract some of the policies set around the United States. Each state has its own approach to energy. Framatome’s job is to help utilities survive; the best way to do that is with advanced technologies with better economics. They bring the technology and service part to verify that the reactor will operate reliably without shutdown. The cheaper nuclear fuel can be brought to the plants, the better it will counteract natural gas. Framatome also looks at ways to better harness the energy in the fuel.

6 - Accident Tolerant Fuel Development

Bret Kugelmass: What is the fundamental limit on how much you can burn up the amount of fuel in the uranium?

Bob Freeman: There is no fundamental limit on how much you can burn up the amount of fuel in the uranium, but it is based on the requirements of the time and the physics of the material. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has barriers on fuel burn up based on materials that have been submitted for approval. The burn up limit is a little outdated, which vendors are challenging. Getting the regulator to agree to raising the limit can be done through testing, demonstration, and analytics. The cladding and the pressure inside the fuel rod, released from the pellets, are the limiting factors. The zirconium alloy tube is under heavy neutron irradiation for two year cycles, up to six years. Industry is trying to determine pickup of hydrogen in the cladding. If hydrogen pickup and corrosion can be limited, the metal will last longer. A near term target for accident tolerant fuels (ATF) takes a detailed process of 30 different multilayer configuration coatings to be placed over the zirconium rod. Chromium was settled as the best. The uranium pellet is doped with chromium to get better properties for heat transfer. The rod is coated with a very tiny level of chromium. This plating stops the degradation and the reaction between the zirconium and steam. The nuclear industry is very risk averse, which throttles the speed of bringing advancements to market. The NRC looks judiciously at a new fuel for safety without a vested interest in whether it comes to market. The near-term solution for ATF’s is the chromium doping. The longer-term technology for ATF’s is silicon carbide, which is a ceramic composite fiber layer that is not zirconium. This would replace zirconium as the cladding, but there are technological barriers that must be managed. Lightbridge introduced a new technology to Framatome a year ago asking for a partnership. They created the joint venture, Enfission, which takes the base technology of the fuel rod and makes it into a metallic matrix. This gives the reactors a 10% power upright, operates at 1000 degree Centigrade less temperature in the centerline, and substantially less pressure drop across the core. Lightbridge brings a substantial economic and safety game change that is very promising.

1 - Path to Nuclear Through Robotics

Bret Kugelmass: Where did you grow up?

Craig Ranson: Craig Ranson grew up in Central Virginia and his father was on the construction team for North Anna Stations 1 and 2, providing his earliest exposure to nuclear. He later received his degree in Electrical Engineering from Virginia Tech, following his passion for robotics. Ranson interned for B&W Nuclear Services working on steam generator inspections and robotics and controls. The heat exchangers in industry at the time were showing signs of cracking and degradation. One way to mitigate the degradation was to take small metal balls and pound the surface of the tube, putting the tube in compression, called cavitation peening. His first job was designing and testing coils that would see the balls flowing properly. In the early 1990’s, Framatome acquired the commercial nuclear business of B&W Nuclear Services. Nuclear power plants have a stable supply of fuel that services the reactor for a long period of time, but eventually the fuel needs to be replenished. Plants bring in specialty capability to perform special inspections and special component repairs during outages in addition to refueling. Craig Ranson started out as a controls engineers and had the opportunity to travel and take his robotics to the field.

2 - Maintenance and Services for Reactor Equipment

Bret Kugelmass: What are inspection probes used for?

Craig Ranson: Inspection probes can be used to confirm the integrity of the tubular material in steam generators. Corrosion is an issue in generators, but also loose parts that wear the tubes. The industry is on a required inspection regimen for the reactor vessel and reactor vessel internals. The internals include mechanical pieces that hold the fuel and control rods, comprised of a lot of metal, bolts, and welds. The reactor vessel closure head also needs to be inspected because it keeps the pressure of a reactor vessel in place. When Craig Ranson got involved in field deployments, he had some leadership opportunities which led to the opportunity to run a whole engineering organization. Being in management is about motivating the team to get to an end goal, not as much about an individual engineering talent. Ranson saw the company focus more on innovation as industry shifted its needs. Framatome had to innovate and invest in new capabilities, such as being able to replace complete steam generators. For there to be a degradation mechanism on these types of metals, three things must be in play: a caustic environment, a component that is susceptible to cracking, and component must be in tension. Framatome looked at the possibility of taking one factor out of the equation: changing the surface state of the material.

3 - Training and Preparation for Reactor Work

Bret Kugelmass: Can you do something to the surface of the material to change its structural properties?

Craig Ranson: The molecules of the metal are in tension or in compression. Putting it in compression prevents cracking from occurring. High pressure water was used to create cavitation bubbles which hits the surface of the metal at a very high velocity. A customer might have a specific problem or issues, such as replacing a fitting on top of the reactor internals. Framatome was going to use specialty trained SCUBA divers to perform the task. One of the biggest concerns was heat stress and multiple divers were needed to prevent having a heat stress situation. The residual temperature in the water is a little over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Framatome used the training center in Lynchburg, VA to perform some tests beforehand. They heated the water, put the divers in the pool with different tools, and had them do the testing. Framatome determined they needed to double the number of divers needed to perform the task. Craig Ranson wanted the workforce to come out from the training center fully trained on the conditions and mock-ups. Framatome has multiple mock-ups, including half a reactor vessel that is set up as a pressurized water reactor (PWR) and half set up as a boiling water reactor (BWR) and two fuel handling machines. Fuel handling machines are large cranes that traverse across the pool, retrieve a bundle of fuel underwater, and traverse the fuel to a transfer system which transfers it to the spent fuel building.

4 - Defueling and Refueling Process

Bret Kugelmass: What is the division of responsibilities between the plant operators and the services companies?

Craig Ranson: Services companies have specific responsibilities to go in and work under the overall control of the plant to do specific activities. There are many pre-meetings and challenges between both the plant operators and services companies to ensure both parties are ready to go forward with the activities. The sequence of activities is reviewed, including anticipated challenges how they will be mitigated. Potential pitfalls include physical obstacles not seen on the drawings, schedule conflicts, or any number of things. The process is a controlled, well-oiled machine when it comes to pre-planning. One of the activities Craig Ranson and Framatome supports is reactor defueling and refueling. They bring the senior reactor operators (SRO) to Lynchburg and train together how to remove the fuel. In the 80’s and 90’s, the outages could last as long as 90 days. A typical outage in the U.S. nowadays is between 20-30 days. Pre-planning and innovation, such as robotics and inspection techniques, allows the outage window to be much shorter.

5 - Innovation in the Nuclear Space

Bret Kugelmass: What are some remaining challenges that you would like to see new technologies come to the forefront to solve?

Craig Ranson: There are good technologies that need to be used more fully, such as cavitation peening. Craig Ranson would also like to see utilities get aggressive with mitigating materials and lengthening the maintenance period on the nuclear plants. Framatome sends information out to plants about the latest techniques through trade journals, social media, trade shows, and industry conferences. Different stakeholders, such as engineering directors, CNO’s, and business folks, look at different opportunities and the benefits and costs. The ability to use global positioning systems (GPS) could be used to improve quality in terms of knowing locations on a certain component. There are different repair and inspection techniques which could speed up the quality process of implementing the outage process that have not been discovered yet. Craig Ranson enjoys solving customer problems at the fundamental level. The ninety-nine nuclear plants in the U.S. bring a value to the economy. The industry has seen tough times, but Ranson cannot see a domestic or global economy without nuclear.

1 - Early Aerospace Experience

Bret Kugelmass: How did you get into engineering?

Kam Ghaffarian: Kam Ghaffarian is originally from Iran and came to the United States in 1977 at 17 years old. One reason he wanted to come to the U.S. was to pursue his childhood passion, becoming a part of the space program. He received his double degree in computer science engineering at Catholic University in Washington, D.C. After graduation, Ghaffarian started working for large aerospace companies that supported NASA programs, starting his career at Lockheed supporting Goddard Space Flight Center. After Lockheed, he worked for Ford Aerospace. In December of 1994, Ghaffarian pursued his lifelong dream of owning his own company and started SGT with Harold Stinger. Ghaffarian felt that his inspiration drove him to actually move to the United States and pursue his dream. He always knew he had an entrepreneur bent, but he was inspired by how big the universe is and how small the Earth is, as well as President Kennedy and the U.S. mission to the moon. By the time SGT was sold, there were about 2,500 employees, 5,000 including subcontractors.

2 - Growth of SGT

Bret Kugelmass: Was there an inflection point in the growth of SGT in which you sat back and thought about how it became so big?

Kam Ghaffarian: Kam Ghaffarian is a firm believer that, if you don’t know where you’re going, any bus can take you there. You need to have a destination in mind as to what you’re trying to achieve and where you want to go. From day 1, Kam Ghaffarian and Harold Stinger’s goal was to have 1,000 people and do $100 million a year in ten years. Every enterprise should have a BHAG, as described by Jim Collins: a big, hairy, audacious goal. A self-fulfilling prophecy is creating a mindset and destination that brings dormant forces alive and propels one to get there. Ghaffarian started SGT in December of 1994. The goal was to do $100 million a year by August 1, 2005. By 2002, the company was $10 million a year, or one-tenth the goal, and 100 people, or one-tenth the goal. The dream is born in your mind and your heart, and that is where it dies. In August 2005, SGT did $102 million running rate, growing 10x from 2002 to 2005. Along the line there are dream busters. You have to imagine the destination you want to get to, believe it, and go make it happen. Ghaffarian would rather aim high and miss, rather than aim low and make it. He had a spiritual and consciousness growth that was growing in parallel with his business growth. Ghaffarian wanted to make the planet a better place to live and created a vision to advance the state of humanity and human knowledge. As a result of looking at bigger problems, his motivation became more about making a difference than making more money. Ghaffarian is now involved in 20 entities which carry this theme throughout.

3 - Energy’s Connection to Standard of Living

Bret Kugelmass: What are some of the other ways you can make a difference, aside from advancing humanity and knowledge?

Kam Ghaffarian: Kam Ghaffarian’s partner at SGT was also a pastor of a church while they worked at NASA. He met an individual from the Democratic Republic of the Congo who was asking if they would consider sponsoring orphans in Kinshasa. Ghaffarian agreed without hesitation and they have since sponsored hundreds of orphans, bought a building, and now has a school with 700 kids where they also get a meal. Ghaffarian loves the smiles he sees on the kids’ faces and the difference made is immeasurable. Ghaffarian believes that his experiences are not coincidences, but interconnected synchronicities. He would not have opened X-energy if not for the school in Africa. When he started the school and traveled to Africa, Ghaffarian learned that having power or electricity has a direct relationship to standard of living, such as clean water and education. Ghaffarian was inspired during a zero point meditation to connect what was happening at the school and what was happening with the planet, with a growing population and climate change and an increasing demand for electricity. He developed a philosophy that he needed to come up with an energy solution that was clean, safe, secure, and affordable. His initial idea was a hydrogen solution, but didn’t think the infrastructure is ready for a hydrogen economy. Ghaffarian very quickly came to nuclear because renewables can only provide a fraction of the electricity needed. Uranium and thorium are energy dense. The uranium on Earth is not naturally occuring, but came to the planet from star explosions.

4 - Creation of X-energy

Bret Kugelmass: What was the testing process for your idea once you decided upon nuclear energy?

Kam Ghaffarian: After his meditation in France, Kam Ghaffarian came back to the U.S. and talked to a couple of his senior engineers about his idea of giving back through nuclear energy. He paid the engineers to brainstorm on different concepts and research different assignments. Together, they came to the idea that hydrogen was not feasible and decided on nuclear. The next bridge was to decide what kind of nuclear. The four founding principles - clean, safe, secure, and affordable - directed this decision. Ghaffarian asked what kind of nuclear solution could be 100% safe. His engineers met with a professor at MIT, who showed them a pebble and taught them about TRISO particles and pebble bed reactors and prismatic reactors. This technology was intrinsically safe, which led to the formation of X-energy’s first solution in a TRISO-based type nuclear reactor. Ghaffarian was driven by his heart, his beliefs, and his dreams, not allowing perceptions of others to bother him. X-energy was officially formed in 2009. Ghaffarian did not know many people in the energy sector, but brought some experience from the NASA sector and wanted to bridge the two industries.

5 - Regulating New Nuclear Technologies

Bret Kugelmass: In what way, that you didn’t expect, was the nuclear challenge different that your other ambitious endeavors?

Kam Ghaffarian: Creating a successful nuclear company is multivariable and multi-factored. When building for space, NASA and FAA are involved, but there is no regulatory organization like the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC). Nuclear needs a regulatory organization for safety reasons, but it is a complicated problem to solve. Energy needs to be balanced with economics and regulations. The technology needs to be strong, but also marry the business viability and economics and regulations. A part of NRC’s charter is to enable nuclear technologies. There is a misunderstanding that their only job is to be a regulator. Safety is incredibly important, but there are many improvements from the process perspective to get a design license so more technologies are able to flourish. Ninety percent of NRC’s budget comes from the applicants and only 10% is appropriated by Congress. Someone who submits an application to the NRC is uncertain about how long it will be there and how much it will cost. Ghaffarian proposed a fixed cost, fixed timeline process. If a new type of reactor has never been licensed, the NRC must have time to get educated and come up to speed in order to regulate. That cost of time should not be burdened by an applicant, especially a start-up company, and puts the country behind. The world is in a global energy race, similar to the space race. The U.S. is behind other countries and needs to have a collective consciousness to step up to the plate.

6 - X-energy’s Pebble Bed Reactor

Bret Kugelmass: What is the deployment schedule for nuclear?

Kam Ghaffarian: Other countries are not sitting still in the water and energy race. The U.S. needs to be even faster to get caught up to them, which requires different thinking from the private enterprise perspective and different thinking from the government side. Public private partnerships (PPP) are the answer and collaboration is needed to make deployment happen. Kam Ghaffarian’s vision is to accelerate deployment in order to be successful. By deploying a clean, safe, secure, and affordable solution, Ghaffarian hopes to change the world. His reactor design is gas-cooled, not water-cooled. The reactor has been testing multiple times and, once it reaches a certain temperature, the material turns itself off to be in a safe state. Society will no longer need to rely on fossil fuel as a way of satisfying the demand for power. This kind of solution changes the dynamic of how they operate. Current solutions depend highly on a grid. A large part of the cost in power is in distribution. If the power source can be moved closer to where it’s needed, distribution costs goes down and it creates less problems. Having solutions that are grid independent and less centralized is better for everyone. In many capital cities around the world, there is so much pollution that people cannot even see the sky. Kam Ghaffiarian supports marrying renewables with his nuclear solution; nuclear is an intermediary step towards a cleaner step such as hydrogen. In order to have a hydrogen economy and infrastructure, a heating source is needed, which nuclear could provide. X-energy’s reactor is a co-gen which produces electricity and processed heat. This heat could be used in desalination. Kam Ghaffarian’s inspiration to entrepreneurs is to figure out what gift you’ve been given and allow that music to be played. Following your passion and calling makes every day not feel like work.

1 - Intro to Nuclear through Desalination

Bret Kugelmass: Where did you grow up?

Ron Faibish: Ron Faibish grew up in a suburb of Haifa in Northern Israel. At the age of 18, he graduated high school and moved to the U.S. In high school, Faibish picked a concentration in life sciences based on his interest in chemistry, math, and biology, set on going to medical school. In seventh grade, he interviewed a chemical engineer for a physics project and it opened up a whole new outlook on his professional future. Once Faibish came to the U.S., he spent two years at junior college before transferred to UCLA with a chemical engineering major and an outlook to be pre-med. He eventually got a Master’s and PhD in chemical engineering, with a focus on membrane separations, and medical school became a distant priority. Faibish got an opportunity to work the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) from the desalination side which looked at linking nuclear power plants with very small electrical applications. In 1999, Faibish presented at the International Desalination Association meeting in San Diego, where he met some individuals from the IAEA, eventually leading him to take a position there.

2 - Thermal and Mechanical Desalination

Bret Kugelmass: How did the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) look at desalination?

Ron Faibish: When Ron Faibish joined the International ATomic Energy Agency (IAEA), it was very challenging to get attention and traction on desalination ideas. Kazakhstan had a fast sodium reactor that was coupled to a thermal desalination system. The IAEA was touting the Kazakhs as an example of what has been done; both India and Pakistan expressed interest in desalination and have started demonstration units. The hub of activities was in Asia and the Middle East. The technology and the investment needed to make this a reality was a big question. Reverse osmosis is the mechanics of separation to achieve desalination. The Kazakhs had a multi effect distillation process in which water is purified by boiling in multiple stages. Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant mothballed a flash distillation unit in the plant, which was never activated to use heat to boil off water. The local communities use reverse osmosis and electrodialysis to dissolve on-site water for on-site use. The plant could scale up to provide water off-site, but it requires space, investment, and a good business model. During his time in the nuclear industry, Faibish’s primary focus became international nuclear safety and managed Armenia’s Department of Energy nuclear power plant upgrade project.

3 - Technical Advisor to Congress

Bret Kugelmass: What were some of the safety concerns at the Armenian nuclear plants?

Ron Faibish: The Armenian nuclear power plant was a Russian VVER 440 megawatt reactor that was shut down after a major earthquake. This threw people back into the Stone Age because the reactor supplies almost half of the electricity needs. Armenia sees nuclear very favorably because they need it. The U.S. and others have agreed that, even though the reactor is not the safest design, it needed to be brought up to par with international standards. Since it was not a Western-style reactor, it had old valves, did not have a containment structure, and had to be retrofitted for seismicity. Ron Faibish spent about 14 years at Argonne National Lab, with about 9 years spent on the Armenia project. Towards the end of his time at Argonne, Faibish spent three-and-a-half years as a fellow with Congress energy committee. He was a direct detailee from the Lab to the Senate and the committee. Being a technical advisor is about working the issue and making sure the boss has the most up-to-date information. It also includes writing memos and thinking about legislative strategies. When Faibish joined, there was a huge ramp up on the nuclear waste act and he spent a couple of months working intensely on this issue, which was never resolved.

4 - Contributions to Argonne, ARPA-E, and General Atomics

Bret Kugelmass: Why is the current status quo of dry cask storage above ground inadequate?

Ron Faibish: There is a law that the government needs to find a path for because it is paying fines to industry. Interim storage on-site is fine, but there is limited space and considerations about the containers. Economically, it makes more sense to consolidate them and a permanent solution must be determined. Interim storage is also a solution and is a means to an end, absent Yucca or some repository. WIPP has some issues, but has been an overall success for the Department of Energy. Ron Faibish went to ARPA-E for a year and a half where he was the senior advisor to the director. Faibish initiated a discussion about a fission program and a program director took the initiative to make a case to the community. The initial focus was on micro reactors, or VSMR’s, very small micro reactors. Since then, the MEITNER program came to life and focused on innovative technologies that could advance various concepts that already exist. Ron Faibish returned to Chicago to assume a new position as energy systems lead for strategic initiatives at Argonne National Lab and got a call from General Atomics looking to hire him into a business development role. His role is to develop a more strategic outlook of how the company expanded the portfolio of programmatic activities. General Atomics has core capabilities and is very big on materials. They developed and recently branded SiGA, for silicon carbide technologies, which will help with fast reactor concepts in terms of high temperature materials.

5 - Silicon Carbide in Advanced Fuels

Bret Kugelmass: Is silicon carbide a material that has a high melting point and good structural properties?

Ron Faibish: Silicon carbide doesn’t melt, but instead dissociates, and is used in the cladding for the Westinghouse accident tolerant fuel (ATF) program. The geometry of this material doesn’t melt at very high temperatures; it might crack, but the pellets maintain their geometry. Silicon carbide is very versatile and robust. Westinghouse provides the uranium silicide fuel and General Atomics provides the silicon carbide cladding. EM squared is a high temperature, fast, helium cooled reactor. It is a combination of a high temperature gas reactor and the fast spectrum, making it passively safe and proliferation resistant. It’s a small modular reactor (SMR) which could be dry cooled or wet cooled and uses the Brayton cycle to convert heat into electricity. All of the commercial plants working now are steam driven, which has low efficiency, but the temperature is the limiting factor. Innovating advanced reactors need to be deployed instead of modifying existing reactors. Accelerated fuel qualification (AFQ) allows qualification validation licensing and safety demonstration time to be cut in half. Ron Faibish went to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to start discussions about the irradiation experimental projects to inform the NRC and get buy in.

6 - Fusion Programs at General Atomics

Bret Kugelmass: What other activities is General Atomics engaged in along the lines of new nuclear technologies?

Ron Faibish: General Atomics has accident tolerant fuels, EM squared, advanced fuels, and a salt waste treatment plant for cesium extraction at Savannah River. This extraction design has been deployed successfully and is getting into commissioning. General Atomics (GA) is a big defense contractor that does work in aeronautical systems, drones, laser technologies, and electromagnetic systems. On the nuclear side, GA has fission and fusion, inertial fusion and magnetic fusion. ITER is a magnetic fusion user facility where people from around the country and the world can do plasma and fusion experiments. Silicon carbide potential materials are tested for the inners of fusion reactors and GA has samples being exposed to plasma at various degrees to see how it performs. The inertial fusion program supports the U.S. weapons programs and target fabrication for various national labs and facilities.

7 - Future of U.S. Nuclear

Bret Kugelmass: How do you see the nuclear industry moving forward and how would you like to see them moving forward to bring nuclear energy into a more prominent position?

Ron Faibish: There is renewed interest on the Hill realizing the significance of nuclear being in the game for the U.S. and to the outside world. The U.S. has always been the leader in nuclear technology and safety and that needs to be maintained, but it is slipping away to China, Russia, and state-owned enterprises. Ron Faibish wants to see the U.S. deploying the best technologies in the world and enjoying the benefits of that domestically and internationally. The supply chain needs to be brought back and there need to be more students going into nuclear engineering. The existing fleet must be maintained and the next generation needs to be deployed. Advanced reactors, like EM squared, have a lot of promise and are game changers. Nuclear should be able to do in the industry what NASA can do in the space industry. With all the tremendous support from the government, labs, and industry, this opportunity cannot be missed to make something happen.